The search for the perfect iced Hoji-Cha

[jducoeur]

Okay -- I know a few people on my flist are far more experienced tea aficionadoes than I. Time to mine that expertise a bit.

My very favorite drink in recent years is the iced Hoji tea from Teas' Teas. This is a high-end brand that's sold at Whole Foods and the fancy section of Shaw's. They make green teas perfectly: smooth but intensely flavorful iced teas that would be sacreligious to sweeten, strong enough that I don't miss the calories at all. All of their varieties are good, but I prefer the smoky varieties: the Hoji and now-discontinued Genmai.

The problem, of course, is that the stuff is preposterously expensive ($1.50+ per bottle), and not exactly environmental with all those wasted plastic bottles. So I'd like to learn to make it myself. I've been doing some experiments with both Genmai and Hoji: the results aren't terrible, but they're not great, so I'm seeking advice.

The problem seems to be a sour edge that I'm getting rather strongly in my iced tea results. It's moderate in the Hoji, and strong in the Genmai. I suspect it may be the result of overbrewing, but I'm trying to get as much of the smokiness of the flavor as I can, since that's what I really love in both. (I love my tea very much the same way I do my scotch, with a lot of smoke in it.)

So that's the challenge: how does one extract maximum flavor in an iced tea, specifically for a smoky iced tea, without that sourness? I've only begun to experiment, and I'll be trying a number of things (including cold extraction), but if folks have any suggestions, I'm all ears...

Comments

[leanne-opaskar.livejournal.com]

You may want to experiment with various brands of hojicha and genmaicha to see if there are any that brew up a little better for your purposes. It sounds likely that you are overbrewing.

I'd suggest that if you want it stronger but less bitter, add more teabags but keep the brewing time to a shorter length. Also, I don't know if you're hot-brewing and then adding ice? If so, remember that the ice will dilute the brew, so again, consider adding more tea bags.

I'm completely lazy about making iced tea -- I stick four to five tea bags in my pitcher, put in some cold water, toss it in the fridge, and a couple hours later, I have iced tea. It's a very slow brew, but it tastes fine to me.

If you like smoky tea, have you tried Lapsang Souchong? The leaves are actually pine-smoked. I love the stuff. Numi has a good version called Smoky Tarry. I haven't tried the Republic of Tea version yet.

[jducoeur]

I'd suggest that if you want it stronger but less bitter

No, actually -- bitter I don't mind so much. The note I'm getting, in both cases, is notably *sour*, quite a different thing. It's subtle, but enough to be noticeable in a subtle green tea.

Also, I don't know if you're hot-brewing and then adding ice?

Nah -- this is intended to live in the fridge for a day or two. So I brew it hot, let it cool to room temp, then refrigerate it. (It is possible that the sour note comes in during the refrigeration, I suppose, although it's showing up within the first day.)

If you like smoky tea, have you tried Lapsang Souchong?

Oh, sure -- that's my standard morning workday tea. I buy it by the big canister from Teavana...

[chaiya.livejournal.com]

I don't like green teas, by and large, but I agree with this assessment. Add more tea leaves, brew for less time (and make sure you're brewing at the right temperature). That's what I do with my Jasmine Downy Pearl (the one green tea I absolutely love).

What you describe as sour sounds like the tea going tannic. If that's the problem, this should fix it.

[herooftheage.livejournal.com]

I'm not a tea expert, but I do remember that my grandmother used to add a pinch of baking soda to the water before bringing it to a boil, to reduce bitterness in the steeping process. Also, you migt cut back on your goal of extracting maximum flavor, since my loose understanding is that the longer you steep, the more bitter the result.

[jducoeur]

Interesting, although bitterness per se isn't what I'm perceiving here. It's coming across to me as sourness instead...

[sephiaowl.livejournal.com]

Do you typically add ice or just put it in the fridge once it's done brewing? Those yield rather different results and if you don't add ice, you don't dilute the flavor, and so you won't have to brew it for so long.

Also, I'd recommend trying Tazo teas. They sell them at Whole Foods and Starbucks, though I've seen it at Walmart every once in a while. I am hooked on their unsweetened ice teas, since I hate it when it's too sweet.

[jducoeur]

Do you typically add ice

Nah -- this is simply refrigerated straight.

Also, I'd recommend trying Tazo teas.

Interesting. Do they have anything on the smoky end? Typical black teas don't work as well for me unsweetened...

[cvirtue.livejournal.com]

Do you like the taste of the plain water at your place? If not, this might be interfering with the taste you expect.

[jducoeur]

Interesting theory. I don't *deeply* mind the flavor, but I do perceive it -- by preference, I usually drink from the big Poland Spring bottle in the basement when I'm drinking plain water. Hadn't even occurred to me that I'm usually brewing my tea from the tap. When it's hot, I certainly don't perceive it, but I suppose it's possible that in the subtler flavor of iced tea an off-note in the water could be standing out more.

Good point -- one of my experiments should be brewing from the bottled water instead. Makes it a bit more costly, but still far cheaper and less ecologically idiotic than the individual bottles of tea...

[cvirtue.livejournal.com]

Or something in the water could be reacting with the tea itself. Worth experimentation, as you say.

[therevdrnye.livejournal.com]

As an alternative to bottled water - obviously expensive - consider filtration. The price ranges from pretty cheap - a filter pitcher and a supply of filters - to not-so-cheap (I know someone who bought a distillation unit for his house, because you could run the taps and smell chlorine...).

There is a distinct difference between what comes out of your tap and what you pour from a filter pitcher, and it does effect your tea. Most bottled water is comparable to filtered water this way, although some exceptional cases may be noticeably better.

I'm not sure of the economics of bottled water, but you can filter an awful lot of water through any one disposable filter, and they aren't that expensive.

[jducoeur]

As an alternative to bottled water - obviously expensive - consider filtration.

Oh, I've been considering it almost since we bought the house. But it's not a minor operation: the basement is completely finished, and the water pipes don't go very near the only place where the filters could possibly go. So there would be major repiping involved.

On the occasions when Poland Spring annoys the heck out of me, I think seriously about going for a major filter. (At least enough for the refrigerator.) But it's enough of a task that I haven't pulled that trigger yet...

[umbran.livejournal.com]

I'll second (or third, or whateverth) it - it sounds like over-steeping. If you want more flavor, don't increase the steeping time, but instead add more tea leaves.

In general, the rules I've been told are:
If you are going to add ice, use at least double the amount of tea you'd use for the same volume of hot tea.
If you are going to chill, but not ice, use 1.5 times the amount as you'd use for hot (cold tends to deaden the taste buds).

If you are gong to sweeten with standard table sugar, add the sugar before chilling or icing. This is about more than dissolving the sugar. Table sugar is a disaccharide. In hot water, some of the molecules dissociate into monosaccharides that are effectively sweeter than the original sucrose. Thus, if you sweeten when it is hot, you get more sweetness with less sugar.

If you are adding lemon, do not leave pretty slices of lemon in the pitcher - the bitterness of the pith will leech into the tea, and make it nasty.

[laurion]

This is pretty true. When I'm making bog standard iced tea, I grab 8 bags of Salada (a rather nice orange flavor in their orange pekoe), and steep them in 4 cups of hot water, then add another 2-4 cups of cold water and half a cup of sugar, refrigerate, no ice. I tend to let it steep for quite a while, but it's a basic cut black (cheap tea, cheap flavor).

[jducoeur]

Interesting. Okay, that's a significantly higher tea ratio than I'm giving it yet...

[jducoeur]

Neither sugar nor lemon are issues: one of the main reasons I favor Hoji is that I take it completely straight, so I don't even have to think about calories. (Although that's a fascinating point about the sweetening, which I'll have to remember for the future.)

But good point on the leaves. One of the experiments will definitely be to increase the tea and decrease the steeping time...

[laurion]

You may also consider double-brewing to get more flavor without over brewing. After the first steep, bring back up to temperature and steep in more bags/leaves.

There's always the backyard barbecue south of the mason-dixon shortcut: liquid smoke! (Please, it's a joke!)

[jducoeur]

Huh -- interesting idea that hadn't occurred to me. Thanks!

[serakit.livejournal.com]

I asked my mother, who is very big on iced tea. She knew right off what you were talking about, and said that you don't boil the water. Ideally it should be just below the boiling point, or do a sun-brew and get a big container to leave on the windowsill and brew in the sun's heat.

[jducoeur]

Okay, useful to know. We're just heading into the season where sun-brewing is getting practical. Thanks!