Grumble, grumble, Order of Defense, grumble

[jducoeur]

So the movement to create a Peerage for fencing has reached the point of a formal proposal, out for comment. Do I send another letter to the Board?

On the one hand, I think there should totally be a path to Peerage for those who have had a major impact through fencing; I think that's true of every activity.

OTOH, I think this is the *worst* way we can possibly deal with that. Rapier *ought* to be recognized through the Chivalry, and I'm still cranky that that doesn't have a snowball's chance in Hades of ever happening -- the armored fighters hold the levers of power, and by and large they won't allow it. Failing that, we ought to reinterpret the Laurel or Pelican to be more accepting, or at the *very* worst, have an Order that is designed to be welcoming of all martial activities. As it is, creating a Fencing-Only Peerage means that we are inevitably going to have to create more and more Peerage Orders in the name of fairness. If we're recognizing Fencing today, we should absolutely have one for Archery, and then, I don't know -- Equestrian? Thrown Weapons? (And God help us when someone points out that excellence in execution and behaviour isn't the sole province of the martial arts.)

From an organizational-design standpoint, it's idiotic and damaging: the rise of Zillions of Specialized Awards is one of the worst blights on the SCA today, and I utterly hate the idea of it spreading to the Peerage. We like to say that our awards aren't just "merit badges", but that is certainly what they're coming to look like, and they get steadily less meaningful as they get sliced-and-diced more finely.

All of which said, we have a cultural problem: we are deeply failing all of the martial communities other than heavy list, and that *does* need to be fixed. IMO, the only thing worse than the current proposal is the status quo, and the proposal on the table may be the only politically feasible way to fix it.

Hence, grumble.

(I hate the name "Order of Defense" as well. Would anyone care to argue that "Order of Chivalry" is a name worth emulating? I've always felt that it was one of the more painfully mundane anachronisms we have. I wish someone would show the imagination and backbone to give this proposed Order a real name...)

Comments

[tpau]

with you SO much on all your points BUT... with things as they are i jsut want this damned thing passed and done and completed. preferably before april.

[mermaidlady]

I hadn't realized this had come up again. I'm sadly out of touch with the SCA these days.

I am so against this idea, but I haven't the time to rant right now. Where's the official info? I may write a letter to the Board, for what it's worth, since I'll probably just piss off any Chiv who read it.

[laurion]

Saw the proposal through SCAToday. I agree with you that this is the wrong approach, but it seems like there is a strong 'have the cake and eat it too' background here of trying to acknowledge the problem and do something about it without wading into the political mess of broadening the established peerage. The name ('The Order of the Master of Defense') is inane and seems to come across as of lesser worth than the high virtue of chivalry (we're stuck with that name). But it also coins exactly what is happening. The proposal is a defense against suffering the ongoing slings and arrows, er, rather, foils and schlagers leveled.

Oh, and for anyone looking for some backstory to the proposal, see http://eastkingdomgazette.org/2013/09/17/rapier-peerage-proposal-what-is-it/

[goldsquare.livejournal.com]

OTOH, I think this is the *worst* way we can possibly deal with that. Rapier *ought* to be recognized through the Chivalry, and I'm still cranky that that doesn't have a snowball's chance in Hades of ever happening -- the armored fighters hold the levers of power, and by and large they won't allow it.

I agree with your goal. I don't agree with your conclusion.

First of all, Corpora forbids it - there would have to be a Corpora change that would PERMIT Chivalry to accept rapier (or other) combatants).

Second of all, I think that while there certainly are some StickJockInTheMuds that would rather die or resign than see it happen, I find that most Chivalry members would realistically consider candidates. I also think there are candidates that are not Chivalry, but would make tempting choices.

Third of all, I think there are potential candidates for Crowns all around the Society, who would seriously entertain the concept, and would elevate a candidate if there was any way to get a foot in the door.

Tangentially changing the subject a little, what bothers me is that the multiple incarnations of the SCA Board of Directors over the last many years have mismanage this entire process so badly, that (as you say) it is hard to navigate out of the morass. You don't have to look any further for evidence than tpau's comment - that she would rather go against her own self-interest to make the problem go away.

The SCA Board is, again, teetering on the precipice of failure. If this were a referendum on their MANAGEMENT of the issue, we'd have a lot more unanimity than we do over the issue.

[nomadmwe.livejournal.com]

In no particular order!

- Yeah, in a perfect world the Chivalry would be opened to other combat forms and we would all hold hands and sing. That's really just a nonstarter though, and not letting the perfect be the enemy, etc. Perhaps in a decade when people realize that recognizing other martial arts for excellence in performance of them doesn't cause the sky to melt, the Mod Squad can be rolled into the Chiv, I dunno.

- I legit hear you on the Time Of The Million Billion Peerages.

- I admit to my (understandable, I feel) bias here, but I do think it's the only way to start the fix-it process.

- To be fair, widening the Laurel wouldn't really work for this, given the whole "this is for prowess at sword-tag" thing happening. I know in other Kingdoms, Laurels have been bestowed for excellence in teaching and doing specifically historic technique, but that's not prowess, y'know?

[nomadmwe.livejournal.com]

Same for Chivalry.

Yep! Which was why I pointed that out, because I think that widening the Laurel to accept people like that is in my mind silly, because that wildly dilutes what the Laurel is about.

I do like the Sports Hero comparison, and I honestly agree with you, but I also think that it just won't happen without a push, and maybe this will end up being the push that starts it. I dunno.

[miraclaire.livejournal.com]

I haven't been involved in SCA stuff since college, but I just thought I should say that I'm reading along and find all this stuff fascinating, from a people-watching perspective.

[fredrickegerman.livejournal.com]

I wonder if the SCA has realized that in HEMA people don't particularly distinguish the rapier-ish world from the non-rapier-ish world? Because, oh, the later sources that teach us tend to include both in an integrated system?

[hudebnik.livejournal.com]

In discussing Laurel candidates, I've often found myself saying "yes, this person is really good at X, but has no apparent interest in historically-informed technique, so (s)he belongs in a different Order." I would say the exact same thing for a combat candidate. I would have no problem welcoming into the Laurel somebody who was really good at a historically-informed combat form.

That said, it would be more difficult to make rattan combat historically-informed than to do the same for fencing or archery, because the hardware is more inaccurate -- sorta like trying to build historically-informed women's clothing on top of a bra, or do historically-informed calligraphy with a ball-point pen.

[dreda.livejournal.com]

Tangentially - too many awards is one of the worst blights? That's a strong statement, and I don't get it.