Musing on psychic influences
Aug. 2nd, 2005 04:55 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
jducoeurSo last night was the big schmooze on the subject of the Carolingian Boroughs -- a sort of combination debrief, philosophical roundtable and planning session for the fall. I thought it was quite useful, not least in that it got lots of new ideas on the table, both about why several of the boroughs have had specific issues in recent years, and things we might adjust to help.
One subject that came up repeatedly, though (and this is really the main point of this posting) was the little mismatches between implicit Carolingian assumptions and the way the typical college student thinks these days. For example:
-- The Touchy-Feely Thing. A point that was echoed by all of the younger members there was that the "hugginess" of Carolingia can be very offputting to a lot of potential members, especially female ones. On one level this isn't anything new, but it seems to be more striking now than it used to be, and a bigger problem. Many members of the Barony have spent many years internalizing a touch-oriented culture, while the student world has apparently gotten rather more conservative in this respect.
-- Getting Off Campus. When I was in college, it was pretty normal to wander afield -- Fenmere may have done so more than many social circles, but we weren't unusual in feeling that the campus was destitute of worthwhile things to do. Nowadays, though, it seems to be remarkably difficult to get students off-campus for activities like ours. A point repeated several times was that many schools are turning themselves into little arcologies, emphasizing that It's Dangerous Out There and trying to make themselves as self-sufficient as possible.
None of this is really intended to start a big Borough argument; these subtle shifts are simply things we're going to have to adapt to if we want to stay viable, and we had a useful discussion of how they might be addressed. (Hopefully with more success than some prior attempts.) But the examination of how we have to adjust to shifts in mundane culture did remind me of a speculation that's been running through my head for a while.
It would be really interesting to see how the ebbs and flows of mundane politics affect clubs on a mental level. It's hard to separate my own headspace from the larger scene, but I don't seem to be the only one who has observed that Carolingia, and perhaps the East in general, is just a little *crankier* these days than it used to be. And y'know, I'm forced to wonder how much of that is internalizing the external influences.
I mean, we are a fundamentally romantic club. Historical accuracy is a lovely goal, but the SCA was created mainly from a romanticised view of history, and most people who join do so with that sort of view in mind. But we do not live in romantic times. Certainly up here in Central Blueland, there's a certain grim tension underlying everything these days. Does that feed back into the SCA? Is it just a little harder to throw your heart into romantic notions when romanticism feels like an unaffordable luxury in mundane life?
I dunno. This is, as it says, an idle half-formed musing lurking in the back of my head, and there are so many factors in play that it's hard to separate them. But it does rather feel to me like there is some connection there...
One subject that came up repeatedly, though (and this is really the main point of this posting) was the little mismatches between implicit Carolingian assumptions and the way the typical college student thinks these days. For example:
-- The Touchy-Feely Thing. A point that was echoed by all of the younger members there was that the "hugginess" of Carolingia can be very offputting to a lot of potential members, especially female ones. On one level this isn't anything new, but it seems to be more striking now than it used to be, and a bigger problem. Many members of the Barony have spent many years internalizing a touch-oriented culture, while the student world has apparently gotten rather more conservative in this respect.
-- Getting Off Campus. When I was in college, it was pretty normal to wander afield -- Fenmere may have done so more than many social circles, but we weren't unusual in feeling that the campus was destitute of worthwhile things to do. Nowadays, though, it seems to be remarkably difficult to get students off-campus for activities like ours. A point repeated several times was that many schools are turning themselves into little arcologies, emphasizing that It's Dangerous Out There and trying to make themselves as self-sufficient as possible.
None of this is really intended to start a big Borough argument; these subtle shifts are simply things we're going to have to adapt to if we want to stay viable, and we had a useful discussion of how they might be addressed. (Hopefully with more success than some prior attempts.) But the examination of how we have to adjust to shifts in mundane culture did remind me of a speculation that's been running through my head for a while.
It would be really interesting to see how the ebbs and flows of mundane politics affect clubs on a mental level. It's hard to separate my own headspace from the larger scene, but I don't seem to be the only one who has observed that Carolingia, and perhaps the East in general, is just a little *crankier* these days than it used to be. And y'know, I'm forced to wonder how much of that is internalizing the external influences.
I mean, we are a fundamentally romantic club. Historical accuracy is a lovely goal, but the SCA was created mainly from a romanticised view of history, and most people who join do so with that sort of view in mind. But we do not live in romantic times. Certainly up here in Central Blueland, there's a certain grim tension underlying everything these days. Does that feed back into the SCA? Is it just a little harder to throw your heart into romantic notions when romanticism feels like an unaffordable luxury in mundane life?
I dunno. This is, as it says, an idle half-formed musing lurking in the back of my head, and there are so many factors in play that it's hard to separate them. But it does rather feel to me like there is some connection there...
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(no subject)
Date: 2005-08-03 01:00 pm (UTC)And as far as it being a sheltered-girl thing - NOT. I showed up in the SCA (not in Carolingia) entirely aware of men, and the invasive touching wasn't creepy so much because I didn't know how to say no assertively. It was creepy because I had to say no assertively All The Damned Time. After too many rounds of barely swallowed, "I said don't touch me, fucker!" it becomes hard to get up the enthusiasm to go back into that environment again, no matter how juicy the other rewards.
I understand that the SCA has a disproportionately high number of oddly- or poorly-socialized people. It gets right up my nose that we make excuses for them like "oh, that's just the culture, get used to it."
oddly- or poorly-socialized people
Date: 2005-08-03 02:31 pm (UTC)Maybe we need a public-information campaign within Carolingia (as I suggested above) "Don't hug the newbies!" or "Ask before hugging!" or something.
The last time I hugged someone without asking at an SCA function was several months ago, and he's about 10 years older than I am, I think. I don't think I've been touched without inviting it for years, but I'm not a cute young thing anymore.
Re: oddly- or poorly-socialized people
Date: 2005-08-03 02:58 pm (UTC)I would say that I have observed a handful of people - perhaps a dozen - who are extra-touchy in Carolingia and rather immune to clue about it. I know that I also go into "Ice Shields Up" if I am wary about this, which has the unfortunate additional effect of making me seem very prickly and unfriendly because I am nervous about my personal space. It is a dichotomy that I dislike intensely, because it means that I choose social distance to preserve my corporal sanity.
There is also, of course, the corollary social atmosphere problem; even if people aren't touched uninvited, this sort of snuggly puppy-pile socializing is extremely offputting to some people, because it is perceived as the social norm, and if that's not your thing, it can send a very strong message that you won't be welcomed because you don't snuggle and will therefore be perceived as uptight or unfriendly.
Re: oddly- or poorly-socialized people
Date: 2005-08-03 06:44 pm (UTC)I would say that dance practice *is* both more flirty and more touchy than Carolingian average; that said, it's rather less so than it once was, and probably not exceptional. That's partly a matter of shifting social norms, and partly because the average age is simply older than it used to be. There's a moderate bit of casual hugging and backrubs of friends, but not as much puppy-pile as there once was.
That said, the social atmosphere point is a good one, and trickier to address than some. Avoiding implicit and unintentional social pressure requires a lot of care and attention...
(no subject)
Date: 2005-08-03 03:29 pm (UTC)Now that is just an interesting observation and then some - is this the culture that is desired? Or is it the culture that is tolerated? How often do we actually want to be up-close-and-personal with all the people who want to get within our space in the SCA and how often do we tolerate it?
(no subject)
Date: 2005-08-03 03:46 pm (UTC)A fine question. The snarky answer is, of course, that the oddly-socialized are in the majority in the SCA and have constructed a culture to their liking which allows for a lot of the kind of social interaction that is proscribed in the World At Large. (Or perhaps that they WERE the majority and are hanging on to their construction for dear life, which perpetuates it even among the more clueful - it is not for nothing that people mention the age of the "creepy guys" with some regularity.)
I do not dispute that the SCA is a refuge of sorts for many, many people, myself among them. But for some it is a social refuge that allows them to continue in paths that have been disallowed elsewhere, for reasons that I personally think are appropriate.
Over time, I find that I "deal" with the creepy problem by avoiding the people, because that is the only sure-fire. But it doesn't solve the problem at its core, and it makes me resentful because I sometimes avoid places that I would rather not, because of their population.