Symbolism in Heraldry?

[jducoeur]

A quick double-check, lest I stick my foot in my mouth.

We got a question on the SCA Questions List, from a fellow who is looking into his family crest, and is trying to understand the symbolism of the positions of the beasts. He says that it has, eg, a crouching dragon and two boars with their snouts raised, and wants to know what that *means*.

My gut reaction is that it doesn't necessarily mean anything -- that the notion of specific symbolism for specific positions is a modern notion that's been imputed to period heraldry. But I Am Not A Herald, and I know a couple of the people here, so I wanted to make sure that I'm correct...

Comments

[queenortart.livejournal.com]

My understanding (after a visit to the College of Arms in London and it doesn't get much better than that) is that it's a case of having whatever you fancy so long as no-one else has the same thing.

I'd have tiaras on mine if I'm ever allowed to have one!

[rufinia.livejournal.com]

Having once been a herald (and contemplating a return to the Dark Side of the Voice) period heraldry doesn't mean anything.... much as some SCA people want thier Heraldry to be a resume and end up with some truly atrocious stuff.

[tashabear.livejournal.com]

Seconded.

[dragonazure.livejournal.com]

This may get aslightly pedantic, so bear with me, please....

As best I can tell, most of the "meanings" associated with heraldic charges and positions come from Victorian interpretations of period heraldry. If that is what your friend is looking for, a copy of Fox-Davies' Dictionary of Heraldry will help--but not much if he is trying to determine the nuances of which way the head of an animal is pointed. I haven't run across anything other than the position of an animal's tail that seems to have any significance--and that gets implied by term used in the blazon. E.g..: coward, meaning the tail is between the animal's legs.

From my own researches, the English College of Arms, counts some fairly minute differences in posture and details sufficient to differentiate between different emblazons. On the other hand, it could be as simple as artistic interpretation. I really wouldn't read much into it.

--Eldred AElfwald

[jducoeur]

Okay -- that's about what I figured, but wanted to check. Thanks! The Questions List may be made up of amateurs, but we try to be well-informed amateurs...

[goldsquare.livejournal.com]

Whenever there is symbolism, there is analysis and meta-analysis. So you can find (especially during the Victorian and Edwardian era's, but even in SCA period - a little) documentation on the inner "meaning" and "symbolism" of colors, animals, positions, etcetera in coat armor.

But, it seems to me, every bit of it is both post-facto retrograde analysis - and, totally inconsistent with the broader spread of heraldry.

That's not to say that some modern heraldry doesn't have some kind of meaning. An interesting recent article in the New York Times (which I'd referenced in my LJ) talked about the US Army's office of insignia that creates elaborate armorial creations steeped in symbolism. But that's MODERN.

Now - it seems to be the case that SOME of the larger formal full heraldic presentations, with compartments, crests, shields, supporters and such MAY have some specific symbolism to the individual bearer at the time. But since heraldic arms were hereditary, those full achievements would come and go, and change - and not be related to the arms themselves.

So, basically, the answer is NO. But I've given you some armor of your own to deal with answering about the exceptions.

[oakleaf-mirror.livejournal.com]

...family crest...

*twitch* And this person has checked to see that he's the individual heir to this particular piece of heraldry? You don't get the rights to any particular arms just because you have the same last name as someone who used to have them.

[jducoeur]

To be fair to the poster, I don't actually know that he's in the SCA at all, and thus may not actually care about the way the idea of heraldry has been corrupted. The Questions List gets a modest but constant trickle of questions from people who are mostly interested in this sort of modern pseudo-heraldry. I ignore most of it, but this particular question caught my eye.

So while yes, I'll probably bring up the usual "there's no such thing as a family crest" point (which figures in probably half of these heraldry questions we get, if not more), it may well be irrelevant to his concerns...

[dagonell.livejournal.com]

Greetings from Dagonell, Whitehorn Herald

The positions of the animals only serve to distinguish between other devices with the same animals. The choice of charges was commonly a cant or pun on the family name, anvil for Smith, fish for Carp, etc. Occasionally, a warrior-type would have a fierce animal to show his ferocity in battle (e.g. Richard Lionheart, et. al)

"Family Crest" *shudder* *twinge* Unless he's the direct male descendent of the original owner, it's highly unlikely he's actually entitled to arms. Having the same surname, or even being a member of the same family are NOT sufficient. Queer Eye for the Straight Guy recently did a show around an MSR member. They decorated his apartment with his 'family crest' Marshal, "Per pale vert and Or, a lion rampant gules." Problem is, that's THE arms of William the Marshal, one of the greatest knights in Europe.

Aren't you married to a herald?
-- Dagonell

[mindways]

"Family Crest" *shudder* *twinge*

I can understand the sensitivity to what must be an oft-abused notion.

Out of curiosity (as I know very little of period heraldry) - in those cases when a grant of arms was passed down - would relatives in the household/family of the inheritor of those arms use the device?

[jducoeur]

Out of curiosity (as I know very little of period heraldry) - in those cases when a grant of arms was passed down - would relatives in the household/family of the inheritor of those arms use the device?

It's a subtle question, but basically the "main" device is only legally usable by the direct inheritor. Close relatives often use variations of the device, and there evolved some fairly precise rules about how you modify the device to indicate a specific relationship to its owner. (Eg, a "label", which is a sort of inverse-crennelated stripe near the top, which means essentially "direct heir to the owner of this device"...)

[jducoeur]

Aren't you married to a herald?

Yes, but book heraldry isn't her specialty -- she's more of a protocol wonk. (Runs in the household.) More importantly, she'd left for work by the time the question came in.

As for the rest -- all pretty much what I figured, but wanted to double-check. As I mentioned above to oakleaf_mirror, the "family crest" issue is *very* common on the Questions List, which gets lots of non-SCAdians who don't quite grok heraldry. I treat it as a teachable moment, but that often doesn't get through, since they often don't much care about the real period usage...