TiVo questions
Sep. 27th, 2006 02:30 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
jducoeurSo here's a question to the TiVo users in the audience (I know there are a bunch of you out there):
I've got a Panasonic DVR that I'm quite happy with -- the UI suits me, it's got a big hard drive, it makes it trivially easy to burn stuff to DVD, and it doesn't attempt to be smarter than I am. It has only one drawback, but that's a *big* drawback: it only deals with two-digit channel numbers. Given that my cable actually has tons of channels beyond 99 (including all of the premium stations), that's a real limitation on what I can record. This is particularly an issue as I contemplate the second season of Rome, which is going to happen eventually.
So I'm idly curious about whether a TiVo would do better. Specifically, while I think I'd leave the Panasonic in place, I'm thinking of replacing the seldom-used VCR with a TiVo. That would allow me to hard-drive multiple shows at once, which is occasionally necessary. I think it would be worth it *if* it deals with the things that the Panasonic doesn't.
So the questions are:
1) Does TiVo deal properly with three-digit channels? (I suspect the answer is yes.)
2) Will a TiVo control my cable box? This is nearly as important, because the premium channels have to go through the cable box to get decrypted. The VCR (and, indeed, the Panasonic) has a "cable mouse" attachment that will change the channels on the cable box when needed -- does the TiVo have something similar? (This, I'm less sure about.)
Information about these questions (or suggestions of alternative ways I could configure a system that does what I want, including some device other than a TiVo) is solicited from unimind...
I've got a Panasonic DVR that I'm quite happy with -- the UI suits me, it's got a big hard drive, it makes it trivially easy to burn stuff to DVD, and it doesn't attempt to be smarter than I am. It has only one drawback, but that's a *big* drawback: it only deals with two-digit channel numbers. Given that my cable actually has tons of channels beyond 99 (including all of the premium stations), that's a real limitation on what I can record. This is particularly an issue as I contemplate the second season of Rome, which is going to happen eventually.
So I'm idly curious about whether a TiVo would do better. Specifically, while I think I'd leave the Panasonic in place, I'm thinking of replacing the seldom-used VCR with a TiVo. That would allow me to hard-drive multiple shows at once, which is occasionally necessary. I think it would be worth it *if* it deals with the things that the Panasonic doesn't.
So the questions are:
1) Does TiVo deal properly with three-digit channels? (I suspect the answer is yes.)
2) Will a TiVo control my cable box? This is nearly as important, because the premium channels have to go through the cable box to get decrypted. The VCR (and, indeed, the Panasonic) has a "cable mouse" attachment that will change the channels on the cable box when needed -- does the TiVo have something similar? (This, I'm less sure about.)
Information about these questions (or suggestions of alternative ways I could configure a system that does what I want, including some device other than a TiVo) is solicited from unimind...
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(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-27 06:42 pm (UTC)i think so... i hav eacomcast cable box. the tivo is jsut downstream of thecable box, and changes teh box's chanels with these little IR thingies.
i heart my Tivo itis a series 2. i have heard both good and bad things about the series 3 it is wicked new.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-27 08:49 pm (UTC)Okay, that's essentially the same topology I have for the VCR currently. Good -- that was what I was hoping for. Thanks!
(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-27 09:07 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-27 06:45 pm (UTC)Yes, TiVo has a cable mouse.
Yes, TiVo Series 3 (just out) no longer needs a cable box at all -- it accepts two CableCards for local decryption, and can then record any two subscribed channels at once while playing a recording back.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-27 08:52 pm (UTC)Intriguing. Do we know if Comcast is currently providing Cablecards? (And whether it costs extra to get two?)
While I've been vaguely aware of cablecard technology for a long time (since my father is always off on the bleeding edge of home technology), I haven't had any reason to investigate it locally before.
Very useful intel. Thanks!
(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-27 10:04 pm (UTC)I don't know what (if anything) Comcast is charging for them, but the highest reported monthly rate I've seen for two is $4, which is still less than the cost of a cable box and remote rental, by a good bit. The limitation with the current CableCard systems is that they're one way. So, you can get premium subscription channels, but can't get On-Demand, or some pay-per-view stuff, from what I've heard.
The new TiVo box is spiffy, but it's not cheap. They want ~$800 for it, plus the service subscription (which would be the same for any TiVo box).
(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-27 11:23 pm (UTC)The TiVo Series3 is very, very nice - I have one - but it is also very expensive - $800 expensive. It just shipped this month, so that's the launch price. It will surely come down over time.
If that's too expensive, I'd get the Series2DT, which can be had for well under $100. Pricing plans vary depending if you buy from TiVo.com, which means getting a bundle, or buy the box at retail then just activate the service.
I run
(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-28 03:52 pm (UTC)Very nice machine indeed, and more future-proofed than most alternatives. (I had been thinking about the high-def problem, which is theoretically going to turn into a Serious Issue pretty soon.) But holy *crap*, that's expensive, especially for a machine without DVD-burning capabilities. (We're still pack-rattish enough to really appreciate the Panasonic's DVD burner, and use it extensively.)
Does complicate the decision-making process, I have to admit. I'd mainly been thinking about the cheap-as-dirt older model -- I could drop $100 for a Series 2 without really thinking about it. The Series 3 *is* much nicer, though. (And the possibility of buying
(no subject)
Date: 2006-11-22 06:18 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-11-22 11:42 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-27 07:21 pm (UTC)See, TiVo used to be my favorite company, but for the past three years has been steadily removing functionality from my box. You used to be able to skip forward in 30 second chunks; now, you have to enter a "cheat code" to enable that functionality. Things like that. The latest go-round was introducing software to "expire" old programs that you don't watch within a particular period, according to the broadcaster's wishes; not nice. Also, for no discernable reason the UI is getting slow as toast, when it used to be quite sprightly.
Other than that, it's a great product.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-27 08:55 pm (UTC)I'm contemplating the PC option -- one of these days I'm going to upgrade the main desktop, and I'm thinking about getting a serious Media Center machine. But that has its own problems, and I haven't decided whether I want to deal with them or not. (Frankly, I'm not sure I want to go to the work of designing The One True Setup -- if I go this route, I'm going to wind up doing a whole bunch of research for it. The TiVo option, while limited, is appealingly easy.)
(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-27 11:24 pm (UTC)For a machine that can do:
- DVD play and record
- two tuners, both capable of HDTV and NTSC recording
- 300GB storage
You need to spend roughly $1000. This is about the same as an S3 TiVo with subscription.
Tradeoffs:
TiVo does all the work.
TiVo has a great UI
TiVo is in control
TiVo S3 does not have a DVD recorder built-in
TiVo charges a subscription fee
The PC is upgradable at whim (software)
The PC is upgradable at whim (hardware)
The PC will never use CableCard, and you will want to keep a tuner for any encrypted channels (HBO, Starz...)
(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-27 11:38 pm (UTC)Another tradeoff: privacy
Date: 2006-09-28 12:49 pm (UTC)Re: Another tradeoff: privacy
Date: 2006-09-28 03:54 pm (UTC)Re: Another tradeoff: privacy
Date: 2006-09-28 06:29 pm (UTC)I can see that. What worries me is that, in a tyranny, privacy can be much more serious than that. For example, suppose the fundies get their way, and make most sex acts illegal; an obvious first step would be for the sex police to start data mining in records like TiVo and Google.
Re: Another tradeoff: privacy
Date: 2006-09-29 03:10 am (UTC)Besides, under circumstances like that, truth is always the first casualty. Whether I've actually done anything wrong or not is scarcely relevant in a true tyranny. If they want to take me down, they'll manage it. Evidence is easy to fabricate if you have the power and desire to do so...
(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-27 11:36 pm (UTC)The 'expiration' thing was so badly misreported it was sickening. Macrovision requires, in their license, support for analog content protection - including the flags. TiVo has a Macrovision license, and *must* have one. It is required as part of the DVD Forum license for DVD, and they have units with DVD. It was also required to get FCC approval for TiVoToGo (moving shows across a network to a PC). Not having a Macrovision license is simply not an option for them.
And they're not alone. ReplayTV had/has the same license. Other DVD recorders, DVRS, etc, do too. Even PC-based recording software sometimes has the same license - the very same flag bits reported on TiVo have been encountered in the wild with PC-based systems.
Everyone always makes it a TiVo issue, but it isn't - it is industry wide. It is harder to find a system *without* the Macrovision license than with it. TiVo is just the popular brand to it gets press.
On top of that, the flags are *illegal* to use on broadcast content, per the FCC. Every reported encounter so far as stemmed from improperly configured system at the content provider - cable or satellite company, local station, etc. And when it is reported to TiVo they have contacted the providers and had the problem fixed. The bits are meant only for PPV and other premium content.
It has been in the software for several years now, almost 4 years actually, and it was in there for a while before it was 'discovered' and a big fuss was made over it. It has been a non-issue for all but a handful of users. And going with another option doesn't mean you're sure to avoid it - Macrovision is nigh universal.
The slowdown is a real issue, the latest update needs to be optimized. TiVo is aware of the issue and the next update is supposed to improve performance. It is really most noticable on the 5xx Series2 boxes - those have the slowest hardware to start with. If you buy a box today you'd probably buy a S2DT or S3, the two fastest boxes they've ever made and the slowdown isn't an issue. The S2DT has 64MB RAM and the S3 128MB in the main bank, with more dedicated to other things - the S2 had 32MB and a slower CPU. That's why they're hit by it.
re: 30-second skip
Date: 2006-09-28 04:24 am (UTC)Re: 30-second skip
Date: 2006-09-28 12:43 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-27 08:35 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-27 08:55 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-27 10:29 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-27 11:25 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-27 11:45 pm (UTC)Since TiVo is allowing transfers from lifetimed S1 or S2 boxes to the S3, for a $199 fee, through the end of the year, a lot of people are searching for lifetime boxes to transfer from.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-28 03:58 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-28 12:36 am (UTC)I rent a DVR box from Comcast for between $5-10/month (depends on the current special). That's less than a TiVo subscription and I don't have to pay a few hundred for the initial hardware.
My DVR does everything that TiVo did when I first signed up for it (um... somewhere between 12-18 months ago). A quick glance through their webpage shows a few new features, but nothing to convince me to switch (I only watch TV in front of the TV, for example).
So, that's another option. My install fee (from Comcast) was about $20-30...much less than a couple hundred dollar TiVo box. I have a hard time spending that much when I don't have to.
re: DVR from Comcast
Date: 2006-09-28 04:29 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-28 03:59 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-28 05:09 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-29 02:27 pm (UTC)The part that sounded like it might be important to you is that with a media pc, there's a way to set things up so that you can automatically remove commercials (I'll send the link from home) before burning to DVD or whatnot. That sounds like it may be an important feature to you. The article said that it takes about 40 minutes to run through an hour long program, but you could set it to run while doing housework.
If streaming from your computer is important (I don't know), the magazine said that it's better to go with a media pc (to do it with TiVo requires that your computer be on ANYWAY, and you can't do it from a cable company's box).
I've been doing research on streaming media from your computer for my parents (they now have two HD TVs larger than 50" and Mom is sitting on the floor hooking her digital video camera to the front of the tv!), and personally, I'm favoring Buffalo's setup (an external RAID storage hooked to the network and media box hooked to the tv). For my parents, it's a good option so that the videos don't get LOST in a harddrive failure (home movies of my sister's baby), but if you're mostly recording from TV it may not be an issue.
There's some interesting options for streaming TV from your main box to other tvs (so if you drop $800 on a TiVo, you don't have to do it for every tv), but they still cost in the $hundreds range. I still consider the cable box (in my case, a pair of them) to be the most economical way to go, and my house is already wired with cat5 cable (making some options easier/cheaper). Shows that I'm not sure which TV I'll watch them on (like Mythbusters, which is cool in HD, but we tend to watch more at night as we're getting ready for bed) just get recorded on both DVRs.
I'm just rambling...
(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-30 04:24 am (UTC)Actually, less than you might think. Bear in mind, this is the house that recorded 1200 VHS videotapes off the air, and the vast majority of those are ads-intact. So I'm really, really used to just skimming forward through the ads.
That said, the ability to burn DVDs at all matters to us, and the Comcast box won't do that. So we need to decide how much we care.
The interesting thing about the Comcast approach, though, is that it's zero-commitment. We can do it now, use it for a year or two, and change our minds after that without feeling like we've wasted any money. That's appealing...