A lesson in practical microeconomics

[jducoeur]

That is to say, the way to make a profit is to sell customers what they want. And the way *not* to make profits is to not be able to.

*That* shopping trip was a complete washout. First stop was Lowe's; after hunting in vain for several minutes, I stop at the Customer Service desk.

"Can we help you?"
"Yeah -- I'm looking for the usual sorts of winter stuff."
The lady behind the counter starts to shake her head.
"Ice melt? Sand?"
"Oh, we've got some sand left. Aisle 1."
"I suppose it would be too much to ask for a snow rake?"
Sad smile. "Yes -- yes, that would be too much to ask."

*Sigh*. On to Target, for more mundane things like a furnace filter and some floss refills. Surely *that* will go well.

I get to the parking lot, which is suspiciously underpopulated for a Saturday. Halfway to the door, someone walking from it tells me that there are signs on the doors, saying that they are closed until they can get all the snow off their roof. Driving away, I see an *army* on the roof -- it looks like every employee of the store, probably 50 people, are up there piling snow onto blankets and tossing it over the side. They're making good progress, but of course that roof is half the size of a football field, so there's a lot to do.

So when next month's economic numbers come in a bit weak, I think we've got a couple of good examples of why...

Comments

[dlevey.livejournal.com]

This happens every year, and I've yet to understand why. We're in new England. We occasionally get a bit of snow. Somehow, though, this little bit of snow takes every hardware and house store by surprise. "Oh no!" they cry, "We didn't expect snow in New England in winter! We must wait for new shovels and (roof) rakes and implements of destruction to be trucked in - they'll be here in a week." This ignores, of course, that some roads are impassable and the trucks will be delayed. And yet they still maintain rows of charcoal and gas grills, and garden things completely unusable until at least March. If this happened *once* I could see them being taken by surprise. But when it happens each and every winter, someone just isn't trying because they know that people won't be going anyplace else with their dollars.

[jducoeur]

Yeah, I was very bemused by how well-stocked they were for garden supplies, outdoor grills and lawn mowers. I mean, at least when clothing stores stock up on swimsuits in January, they can claim that it's for resort travel -- but who the heck buys a lawn mower in February?

[cvirtue.livejournal.com]

This seems like someone hasn't thought it through.

1. The roof is unsafe because of snow/ice weight.
2. It might fall down; we will close the store for everyone's safety.
3. We will put 50 people with gear on top of the roof. 200#x50people = 10,000 pounds concentrated on smallish boot-tread surfaces, moving, on a roof already compromised sounds like a large work injury claim just waiting to happen.

[loosecanon.livejournal.com]

I do not comprehend why flat roofing is permitted in high snow areas.

[cvirtue.livejournal.com]

On the other side, this is record levels of snow for this area. Still, it is a bit of a puzzle.

Roof structure regs referenced

[cvirtue.livejournal.com]

Found this just now:

Many of the buildings that have had roofs collapse, particularly the commercial and industrial structures, are believed to have been built before code regulations were enacted following a series of roof collapses when the Blizzard of 1978 hit, said Jim Russo, president of Russo Bar Associates Inc., a Burlington engineering firm that designs and builds roofs.

He said new buildings are designed to handle heavy snowfall, but the recent mix of snow and sleet is putting extraordinary pressure on structures.

According to modern state building code regulations, for instance, a flat roof must be able to support a snow load of 31.5 pounds per square foot, and according to engineering and meteorologist studies, Russo said, the average density of a snowfall is 6 pounds per cubic foot.

That means it would take 5 feet of snow to put a roof in danger of collapse.

But, given the mixture of ice, sleet and rain the area has experienced recently, the weight of a cubic foot of snow could be considerably more — as much as 13 to 15 pounds — leaving roofs vulnerable to the heavy pressure.

[alexx-kay.livejournal.com]

What other solution would you propose? Is there any *less* risky way to get the snow off?

True, there is substantial risk of a work-injury claim. But balance that against the costs of doing nothing. You could leave the store closed until spring, for a guaranteed huge loss (to workers as well as owners). Or you could stay open and hope, with the possibility of substantial structural damage and customer lawsuits -- and at least as much risk of worker injury.

You could do the job more slowly, with fewer workers, of course. But that means the store is closed for longer, and a lot of the workers aren't getting paid for that time. I suspect that most of those workers would prefer the situation they are in, given those alternatives. (One could argue that this is exploitative due to the evils of Capitalism, but that's a more advanced argument than I want to get into right now.)

[cvirtue.livejournal.com]

The best option is of course to do it right from the beginning, with the first snowfall. Many short-sighted building owners of course have not done this. Once they've let it pile up, the options are more difficult.

[aishabintjamil.livejournal.com]

So true. My employer has a lovely new (as in completed about 14 months ago) building. I've been looking out at the snow on our roof and being concerned. It has only a partial 2nd story, with a deck and green roof on the rest, so it's easy to see the snow depth.

Thursday someone noticed that some of the ceiling tiles were dipping oddly relative to a couple of the electrical conduit posts in the middle of the cube farm area. It turns out that the suspended ceiling attaches directly to the underside of the roof, and the roof has flexed enough to make the framework holding the tiles a little loose.

Management immediately contacted the builder, and we had a couple of civil engineers running calculations regarding combined load of snow based on depth, the green roof modules, etc. Yesterday the builder came over, examined the roof and assured us that the main beams supporting it are designed to flex up to 2 inches while remaining safe, and it's *only flexed half and inch* so we're fine.

Because of course there will be no more snow this winter, and the problem won't get any worse.

The people making the decision to rely on this assurance rather than pay someone to clear the roof, BTW, are in Texas.

[jducoeur]

True enough, but I'm not going to cast that particular stone. This season has been by *far* the worst I've ever seen -- not as much total snow as '78 (yet), but the every-week cycle, with lots of medium-bad storms and absolutely no respite for things to melt and drain, has caught everybody by surprise...

[cvirtue.livejournal.com]

Yes, it sure has been a doozie. Doozy?

[new-man.livejournal.com]

Duesy -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duesenberg

[cvirtue.livejournal.com]

An intriguing idea, although there does seem to be significant doubt about that.

[jducoeur]

To be fair, I have no evidence that the roof was *actually* unsafe. I think it's more likely that somebody looked at the weather, realized that they were about to get massive melting and that all that water was likelier to come in rather than over the sides, and decided that they'd better deal before things get even worse.

(The store is new enough that I think it's *pretty* likely to be structurally sound. But it wouldn't surprise me at all if roof leaks are turning into a huge problem under the circumstances...)

[loosecanon.livejournal.com]

a quick note. Mason's suppliers have salt and tools, pet stores have pet friendly salts.
small neighborhood hardware stores are also often overlooked by the teeming masses.

[jducoeur]

Good point -- I should have thought to call my oft-overlooked TruValue hardware store, which is frequently better-stocked than the big boxes...

[lauradi7.livejournal.com]

The Lexington email chatlist has had scores of exchanges about roof rakes and calcium chloride over the last few days. As of this morning, the roport was that the Home Depot in Waltham (next to 128) had roof rakes but almost nobody had calcium chloride, either big box stores or small neighborhood hardware stores. The pet store suggestion is a good one, though.

[aishabintjamil.livejournal.com]

I buy salt and sand at my local Blue Seal feed store (Derry, NH, for the curious). Not only do they stock it, but they have a drive-thu and will put it in your vehicle *for you*. They are a little more expensive, but the convenience is worth it for the heavy items.

Tractor Supply and Agway are also options to check out.

[jducoeur]

Garh -- wish I'd known that a few hours ago: I drove almost right past that Home Depot this afternoon, and didn't think to try it. Well, I'll make a few calls tomorrow; thanks for mentioning the option...

Salt Supply

[eclecticmagpie.livejournal.com]

Agway in Waltham had several hundred pounds of salt on display, as of yesterday, and a friend of mine bought some there earlier today after I steered her to it.

Home Depot has been trucking in salt and selling out daily, I think. I watched them bring in a large load of snowblowers, and noticed that they were Canadiana, a brand I've never seen them use before. I infer that their usual suppliers are sold out, not merely HD itself.

Personally, I bought salt two weeks ago (yay! Farsighted! Plus 2 points!) but failed to clear the snow off my (still under warranty) roof and now have TWO ice dams leaking into my house (Boo! Nearsighted! Lose 20 points!)

By the way, email to you bounced yesterday -- do you have a new address, a temporary problem, or is this the first you've heard of it?

[fangirl715.livejournal.com]

I can't help you with roof rakes, but TAGS hardware store in Porter Sq. had a decent amount of various ice-melting substances & bags of sand earlier this week, and they seem to be making a decent effort to keep things in stock. Most of the ice melt is in smaller jugs (they do, after all, cater to an urban clientele), but I do recall seeing some bigger bags as well. You could do worse than to call them...

(And in case you're wondering "who the hell is this person?", I'm Robin de la Pesterye in the SCA, which is how I know you.)

[jducoeur]

Cool; thanks. I actually don't need big bags -- what I mostly need is to work on bits of the driveway, especially the big bump of solid ice where it keeps dripping. (Which is, unfortunately, right on the way into the house.)

Sand etc.

[lensman.livejournal.com]

You might also check your local town DPW. It turns out ours provides sand to residents. I only found out after our tenant looked it up, and had gotten some for us.

[gardenfey.livejournal.com]

This reminds me of this story: http://www.snopes.com/embarrass/mistaken/shovel.asp. Enjoy!