Thoughts on TiVo?

[jducoeur]

msmemory and I find ourselves pondering what we're going to do about the whole digital-TV switchover. Not that we're receiving signals over-the-air, mind -- the supposedly-government-subsidized converter boxes aren't relevant to us. No, our problem is that the cable industry is lying through its teeth about the "if you have cable, you don't have a problem" thing.

You see, we are on cable, and we pay a pretty penny for a fairly high-end package. But the reality is that the cables are *also* switching over to digital, for reasons related to those for the over-the-air change -- it's just lower-bandwidth, which lets them cram more channels in. And this means that any TV that is directly plugged into the cable (as opposed to through a cable box) is potentially screwed. Particularly to us, I am fairly sure that our trusty old Panasonic DVR, which has served us so well for many years, only has an analog receiver, so it's probably toast sometime fairly soon.

So we're pondering our options. We clearly want a functioning DVR -- it's how we watch all the TV we actually give a damn about. (Food Network is fine when we're simply looking for background noise, but we watch most of our series on the DVR.) Enough people have raved about TiVo for long enough that we're considering knuckling under and becoming part of the body.

In which case, the next question is *which* TiVo? The temptation is to go for way-high-end, but I'm taking my time and considering it carefully before spending that much money. The logic for it is that it's a good investment. We're clearly going to want HD capability within the next year or two, so it only makes sense to buy one of the HD models. Besides, the HD model accepts two CableCards, which is probably what we're going to want. (Not to mention the ability to download from Netflix, which is *very* appealing.)

And if we're going to do that, it may make the most sense to shell out the extra $250 for the insanely-large hard drive. The ordinary HD model has more than enough space for conventional-definition shows, but only about 20 hours of HD. Given that we routinely have 100 hours of stuff in our backlog on the Panasonic, this seems like it might become a problem if HD becomes common.

Related to this is the question of which plan to get. Again, there's an argument for going whole-hog: the "lifetime of the DVR" plan is pricey -- about $400 -- but that's the equivalent of about three years of service. If we expect to keep the device in service for a long time (and I'd certainly like to), then the lifetime plan might make sense. Moreover, it potentially increases the resale value of the device considerably if we decided to trade up to something else a few years down the line. So the question there is, how reliable have people found TiVos to be? Can we reasonably expect to get the 5+ years of service it'll take for the lifetime plan to be worthwhile?

Opinions welcomed. I don't have any idea what Comcast's timetable is, but I have no faith that the Panasonic will continue to work past mid-February, so this is gradually turning into a pressing question for us, and we'll have to act soon...

Comments

[laurion]

To be blunt, it may not matter.

RCN recently decided to go all digital. As you said, the logic is similar to the DTV transition, and they're piggybacking on the timeframe to do it. Here's the thing though; the cable companies are not only switching to digital, they're also switching to encrypted channels. As it stands, no DVR can decrypt these signals. I built a DVR with a digital tuner in an attempt to future-proof it. It'll work great with an antenna hooked up, and used to work when RCN had some unencrypted digital channels.

Now I have to have an RCN supplied box anyhow.

Ignoring that argument, I'm a big fan of build over buy, if you're willing to. For about the same cost as that lifetime plan plus the initial costs, you can build a system that will do HAD with plenty of space, and the ability to quickly and cheaply upgrade at any point. Even if you're not interested in mucking around with linux bases systems, you can happily run Windows with Vista MCE, or SageTV. What I would actually recommend is building a system that you can put in your server closet (so to speak) and then use a set top extender (e.g. http://sagetv.com/hd_theater.html). After all, if you're time shifting anyhow, is there a logical reason why the recording device has to be next to the TV?

[jducoeur]

As it stands, no DVR can decrypt these signals.

Do you have reason to believe that CableCards are *not* going to work for most channels? That's one of the main reasons to go with the TiVo -- it takes dual CableCards, and AFAIK that's good enough to at least *watch* everything. (Although I consider it likely that they're going to heavily restrict what one can do in terms of recording of the premium channels.)

I've been assuming that CableCards are going to be completely necessary fairly soon; if you have reason to believe they're insufficient, I want to hear about it...

[laurion]

It all depends on how your cable provider implements the technologies. If they're using switched video, a cablecard is unable to send the tuning signal back to the provider, ergo, unable to change channels. Cablecards are a one-way only device as well, and prevents any pay-per view options. In general, the technology is considered a flop so far. On top of that, there's some wide discrepancies in how much the different cable providers charge for you to rent the cablecards. (Oh yes, it's just like the set top box, but without the box.)

[laurion]

And to back it up with some other people's words, here are some articles (some a little old, I'll admit) on the status of CableCard.

http://www.publicknowledge.org/node/951
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081226-comcast-sued-for-not-selling-set-top-boxes-cablecards.html
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081223-cablecard-still-goes-unloved-except-in-set-top-boxes.html
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081017-fcc-fines-cable-for-anticompetitive-switched-digital-video.html
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080922-is-cablecard-a-dud-only-2000-requested-over-summer.html
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080814-angry-customer-sues-time-warner-over-forced-cable-box-rental.html

And there's a pretty good overview of some of the problems on the wikipedia entry for CableCard.

Also of note, the cable companies (with the exception of Charter) are intending to switch to the next generation system (tru2way) this coming summer. I haven't done any research to see if the TiVoHD models will support that or not, I suspect TiVo users on your flist might have a better idea than I.

[laurion]

(tentative research says Series 4 units will support tru2way, aka OCAP)

[jducoeur]

Hmm. Very useful food for thought. Thanks...

[crschmidt.livejournal.com]

For the record, in Cambridge -- where I think Comcast has already made the Digital+Encrypted transition -- a friend has a TiVo Series 3 with two CableCards, and no problems. (It did take 4 visits from Comcast to get it working; apparently he was the first person in the area to ask for a CableCard, so there was a fair amount of confusion on the Technician's part on what the hell was going on, but it was done without complaint.)